W.I.P. Dallas 1984 Grand Prix Street Track

[Maian]

I have a quick correction. Based on your videos when you were going over the LiDAR data, you pointed to the road that runs alongside the current Dos Equis Pavilion (concert venue to the southeast) as part of that back straight, and then it cuts into the parking lot about haflway down.

That is all incorrect. Where the pavilion currently is was a big parking lot at the time (The venue opened in 1988), and that back straight with the mid-way chicane was straight away into the parking lot (and there's a slight kink before the chicane). The track never went on that road at all.

I've got a pair of 4k exports from Google Earth from 1995 and 2001, and I've added a track overlay to the 2001 map that is (as far as I can tell from the video of the race) completely accurate (with some estimation on that back chicane location, it's somewhere on the lot where the Dos Equis Pavilion currently is).

1995 Fair Park Satellite Image
2001 Fair Park Satellite Image
2001 Fair Park with Track Overlay
1984 Dallas GP Race Video - https://overtakefans.com/race-archive/season-1984/formula-1-season-1984x09-dallas-grand-prix/
Lap On-board Video

If you have questions about verifying, let me know.

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

I have a quick correction. Based on your videos when you were going over the LiDAR data, you pointed to the road that runs alongside the current Dos Equis Pavilion (concert venue to the southeast) as part of that back straight, and then it cuts into the parking lot about haflway down.

That is all incorrect. Where the pavilion currently is was a big parking lot at the time (The venue opened in 1988), and that back straight with the mid-way chicane was straight away into the parking lot (and there's a slight kink before the chicane). The track never went on that road at all.

I've got a pair of 4k exports from Google Earth from 1995 and 2001, and I've added a track overlay to the 2001 map that is (as far as I can tell from the video of the race) completely accurate (with some estimation on that back chicane location, it's somewhere on the lot where the Dos Equis Pavilion currently is).

1995 Fair Park Satellite Image
2001 Fair Park Satellite Image
2001 Fair Park with Track Overlay
1984 Dallas GP Race Video - https://overtakefans.com/race-archive/season-1984/formula-1-season-1984x09-dallas-grand-prix/
Lap On-board Video

If you have questions about verifying, let me know.

i have been waiting 10 years for your comment and it’s finally here! Thank you! i knew something was wrong with the back portion but could never quite figure it out

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

Maian, your images are really good, and your track layout is very well done, I was wondering how did you make that ?
I made a slight correction to it however, as after a lot of analysis, the 2nd chicane was located a little shorter to where you indicated, and the 3rd chicane on the back part, was almost right in front of where there used to be a roller coaster, so something like this:

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

And you can glimpse where that roller coaster was:

 

[Maian]

You're right about the chicane near the roller coaster, I just couldn't ever find an image of that chicane that looked in towards the fair grounds to find its relation.

So, for the portion that runs through the parking lot to the Southwest, along 2nd Avenue, if you look at the screenshots below, it helps guide where the track went. I do have a slight correction on the entry there, though. Screenshots are around the 18:30 mark of the race video, when the commentator starts talking about emergency tire changes from a couple of teams.

The part about that last wide turn (Turn 12? Leading into the back straight next to Pennsylvania Ave) can be seen at 33:55 of the race video. As they make that turn, if you pause, you can see the curb line cut in harder than the track. Then as they move up the straight, you can see the median between the lot and Pennsylvania Ave to the inside of the track. When they get to the chicane, you can also see the big light poles that are just to the inside, and the grandstands just after are to the left (in the image above) of the grassy parking lot split.

The on-board video also shows the little kink I have drawn just before the chicane.

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

You're right about the chicane near the roller coaster, I just couldn't ever find an image of that chicane that looked in towards the fair grounds to find its relation.

So, for the portion that runs through the parking lot to the Southwest, along 2nd Avenue, if you look at the screenshots below, it helps guide where the track went. I do have a slight correction on the entry there, though. Screenshots are around the 18:30 mark of the race video, when the commentator starts talking about emergency tire changes from a couple of teams.

The part about that last wide turn (Turn 12? Leading into the back straight next to Pennsylvania Ave) can be seen at 33:55 of the race video. As they make that turn, if you pause, you can see the curb line cut in harder than the track. Then as they move up the straight, you can see the median between the lot and Pennsylvania Ave to the inside of the track. When they get to the chicane, you can also see the big light poles that are just to the inside, and the grandstands just after are to the left (in the image above) of the grassy parking lot split.

The on-board video also shows the little kink I have drawn just before the chicane.

I have one question: where the hell where you when I did this 10 years ago for F1C ? You would've saved me months of visual research !! Anyway, here's some more images to add to the visual puzzle, these will probably help you out to make an even more accurate layout map (which is great by the way!) Thank you for your very positive help

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

Oh and by the way, another thing that is unclear for me is that double/triple apex left curve that leads into that straight, if you’ve got a good idea, I’m a taker!

 

[Maian]

Looking back at your historical aerial photo linked, it was just dirt and grassy fields next to Pennsylvania Ave. The topo there is probably more along the street itself (so don't base it on the parking lot levels in the LiDAR file - they would've been re-leveled for parking). Just pointing it out because it changes what I thought the references were in that area. I was trying to fit the straight-chicane-straight to a parking lot, but those were paved for the concert venue.

I'm trying to figure out how that long turn is laid out, but it's tough since I can really only find video of that specific corner, and no external images. I can kind of estimate, based on the alignment of that straight through the parking lot with the existing building in the back (you can see the windows in the first two images). That leads me to think the road is pretty much in the spot I have shown. It's also ~30 feet wide, based on the width of the Lotus, and measuring pixels.

You can also see the cameraman in the top right image, on the scissor lift. Knowing that, you can kinda use the bottom two to figure out his exact location (the bottom right is a power pole that is on the corner of the lot and 2nd Ave that is still there today), and then try to figure out the exact layout of that turn. I assume he's lined up with the center of that straight.

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

Just to show you the last thing I did on Dallas that was driveable was for rF1, shows just how much I’ve progressed in a year and a half:

 

[CodyS1998]

I just wanted to drop in and say that I live in Dallas and am very much looking forward to your mod!

 

[Maian]

Adding some links with photos I found -
This is a massive album that someone uploaded that includes non-GP shots, but has a ton of great angles I haven't seen elsewhere. The relevant pictures are on the first two pages of the album. https://www.flickr.com/photos/130263399@N02/albums/72157649168197084

Here's a pic of the race brochure, that has a nice outline of the track with grandstand locations, camera spots, runoffs, bridges and things. https://live.staticflickr.com/5007/5252240722_956464ad43_k.jpg

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

Adding some links with photos I found -
This is a massive album that someone uploaded that includes non-GP shots, but has a ton of great angles I haven't seen elsewhere. The relevant pictures are on the first two pages of the album. https://www.flickr.com/photos/130263399@N02/albums/72157649168197084

Here's a pic of the race brochure, that has a nice outline of the track with grandstand locations, camera spots, runoffs, bridges and things. https://live.staticflickr.com/5007/5252240722_956464ad43_k.jpg

Yes, as you can see, I found those pics too (hence where you have the pic with the Dallas skyline and the south portion of the track. I remember the "EUREKA" moment I had when I found those pics loool) and they're really helpful !
By the way, a year back or so, I actually bought the official Dallas F1 programme, and within had the sort of same track map, albeit a bit bigger (just wanted to say "I got it" before you say one day "hey man I bought it" :

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

Also, this is how the northern portion of the track looked, so even the map is a little off, it's like nobody knew how to trace the layout properly back then

You can clearly see the section here and very very rapidly an idea of the backstretch on Pennsylvania at 1m08:

 

[Maian]

That view at 0:57 is great because you can kind of line up the track with the building to the northeast. It looks like the inside edge roughly lines up with front of the building here:

1:08 also shows a great view of pit entry, that I had just assumed its location to this point.
Hard to tell much about that mystery turn at 2nd Ave and Pennsylvania, though, unless these markings shown on google maps are an indication:

Also, in that album linked in my last post, you probably already know, but the sepia-toned images that claim to be from the 1984 Dallas GP are really from the 1988 Trans Am race.

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

That view at 0:57 is great because you can kind of line up the track with the building to the northeast. It looks like the inside edge roughly lines up with front of the building here:
View attachment 4075

1:08 also shows a great view of pit entry, that I had just assumed its location to this point.
Hard to tell much about that mystery turn at 2nd Ave and Pennsylvania, though, unless these markings shown on google maps are an indication:

View attachment 4076

View attachment 4077


Also, in that album linked in my last post, you probably already know, but the sepia-toned images that claim to be from the 1984 Dallas GP are really from the 1988 Trans Am race.

You may just be correct concerning those markings you did... I think it's correct what you did

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

Just found a really cool forum with A LOT of pictures, I also showed off my rFactor works track on there. Maybe the guy can give some insight of how it was configurated back then:
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/276054-formula-1-dallas-grand-prix-1984/

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

@Maian I did not realize that FINALLY the Google car has passed on Pennsylvania ave ! I was eyeing this out before only on a hunch

 

[EKO Sim-Racing]

Woah !! It's been a little while since I posted on this thread. But hey, got some good news, take a look (keep in mind it's a WIP ! Please don't ask when it's going to be released, or if you can test it or if you can have it... wait till it's done ).

 

[Johnr777]

Woah !! It's been a little while since I posted on this thread. But hey, got some good news, take a look (keep in mind it's a WIP ! Please don't ask when it's going to be released, or if you can test it or if you can have it... wait till it's done ).

When is it going to be released? Can I test? Can I have?
I dont want to wait... gimme gimme gimme

 

[CodyS1998]

ohhhhhhhhh mannnnnnnnnnnnn I am fully excited now!