SOLVED How can i add bumps and better cambers to my track on 3ds max.

[LockeNessMotorsports]

Hey,

Getting there now main mesh is done looks pretty good now started with low poly and adding smoothing.

I need help on getting the cambers a bit better I'm using data imported from rtb so height, cambers etc should be bang on, I read on the track resource list that Lilski did a few and i read them I was interested in the bump one where you use a displace modifier but the thing is I don't know how to do vertex groups on 3ds max and got a little confused while reading it.

Just wanted to know if anyone knows how to do it in 3ds max.

Cheers, Jack

 

[Pixelchaser]

the process is done for the physical layer that you drive on, the visual layer is separate and much lower rez. I'm doing similar thing very shortly with an RTB project so ill tell you how it goes in more detail with 3dmax.



pre select which vertex you want affected and add a displacement modifier to the object, its best to merge all your track pieces for this and detach them later on. in the modifier settings you can displace via a map which is what you want to do and obviously select which axis is affected. test settings at say 1 metre displace check its all right etc, the tone down the displace to about half a centimetre.

 

[LockeNessMotorsports]

the process is done for the physical layer that you drive on, the visual layer is separate and much lower rez. I'm doing similar thing very shortly with an RTB project so ill tell you how it goes in more detail with 3dmax.



pre select which vertex you want affected and add a displacement modifier to the object, its best to merge all your track pieces for this and detach them later on. in the modifier settings you can displace via a map which is what you want to do and obviously select which axis is affected. test settings at say 1 metre displace check its all right etc, the tone down the displace to about half a centimetre.

Cheers, what do you mean by physical and visual slightly confused on that one I just have one track and I have detached it into sections but had to attach them all back to keep it as one mesh 1road instead of going 2 road, 3,road, 4 road etc etc.

I just snapped the verts together without welding.

 

[Pixelchaser]

naming your road with the prefix 1ROAD_ etc makes your track physical. so the car doesn't fall through the road. and in Assetto Corsa we don't drive on the visual road we make. we copy it and make it invisible and make it much higher resolution polygon layout (for the physics engine)

so when you drive on an a kunos track the visual layer is just visual and very low poly you are actually driving on a layer that is set to not render (because its so high poly. this means a "well made" track has two tracks one visual and one physical.

Lilski has a thread about it on main forums that explains how he goes about making it. but he is in blender. my explanation is just the theory.

so.... copy your track. remove its name "1ROAD" and subdivide (modifier) the shit out of it . keep everything in same position. and with your second high poly road name it all 1ROAD etc. install it to the editor and make it non renderable.

we usually use multiple FBX to make this all easier. check Barcelona folder out for how to make a track with multiple fbx. look at models_layout_moto.INI and where the UI and preview images folders are etc. that's quite easy.

another facet of the invisible physics road system is its bumps and roughness etc. which needs changed because your visual road is very smooth but that's another story. one I have not completed or conquered as of yet (3d max noise modifiers are not appropriate) which leads to your original question....... mapping a displacement map. what I have tried semi successfully is taking the new road pieces (copied from visual road) and replacing the texture with the displacement map (made from the original road texture) to check bump positioning, and then applying it as a displacement through the displace modifier. the reason I say to join the roads (and weld) was only to make this displace function on the road. (displace needs high poly road)

the first FBX you ever load in the editor is the one that is saved, but you can load multiple fbx at same time and all this just helps with the bulk tasking you create for yourself. I keep trees, the physics road. and 3d grass separate.

 

[LockeNessMotorsports]

naming your road with the prefix 1ROAD_ etc makes your track physical. so the car doesn't fall through the road. and in Assetto Corsa we don't drive on the visual road we make. we copy it and make it invisible and make it much higher resolution polygon layout (for the physics engine)

so when you drive on an a kunos track the visual layer is just visual and very low poly you are actually driving on a layer that is set to not render (because its so high poly. this means a "well made" track has two tracks one visual and one physical.

Lilski has a thread about it on main forums that explains how he goes about making it. but he is in blender. my explanation is just the theory.

so.... copy your track. remove its name "1ROAD" and subdivide (modifier) the shit out of it . keep everything in same position. and with your second high poly road name it all 1ROAD etc. install it to the editor and make it non renderable.

we usually use multiple FBX to make this all easier. check Barcelona folder out for how to make a track with multiple fbx. look at models_layout_moto.INI and where the UI and preview images folders are etc. that's quite easy.

another facet of the invisible physics road system is its bumps and roughness etc. which needs changed because your visual road is very smooth but that's another story. one I have not completed or conquered as of yet (3d max noise modifiers are not appropriate) which leads to your original question....... mapping a displacement map. what I have tried semi successfully is taking the new road pieces (copied from visual road) and replacing the texture with the displacement map (made from the original road texture) to check bump positioning, and then applying it as a displacement through the displace modifier. the reason I say to join the roads (and weld) was only to make this displace function on the road. (displace needs high poly road)

the first FBX you ever load in the editor is the one that is saved, but you can load multiple fbx at same time and all this just helps with the bulk tasking you create for yourself. I keep trees, the physics road. and 3d grass separate.

So basically take my visual layer, copy it put it a little above and that will be the physical and then use sub divide/ mesh smooth it is 3ds max and then make it invisible in max or just in the ks editor?

 

[Pixelchaser]

yeah just in ks editor and in game obviously . it doesn't need to be above. it will make your car above the scenery too if you do that. your poly surface for the visual and flat track is smooth. roads are not smooth, so once you got the subdivide down and no positional change !, then its time to add random height fluctuations, so we feel the road in game.(try achieve o.5 cm variations) after this process you can watch your car in replay for errors and consider moving it up 1 or 2 mm if necessary.

another facet of this is destroying the uniform grid nature of the poly structure from your visual road. and I find applying a touch of angled tessellation prior to the main divide (tessellation is also a sub divide when used at various distances) this can uneven your grid and when subdividing it creates a nice structure that is random and not uniform grid like.

given the frequencies on physics and the fact we drive over polygons, there is a relationship there between physics frequencies and poly structure. ive no idea of the formula but there will be 2 points one where there isn't enough polys and one where there is to many polys. so not going crazy with it is the key. when we have too little polys there is an ingame effect of shuddering, this results from the physics intended to be for higher poly structure etc. and that's also why shit tracks feel shit coz they are driving on a visual layer usually.

on my highways track project. (see RTB thread here) I have many types of roads. and having worked on physics layers I suggest trying to maintain square arrangements via RTB when exporting because max modifiers work better with squares, that's all. . infact when seeking to export my physics layer, I enhance my visual layer first with more poly cross section points. (my visual layer has 1 poly from road side to other road side. no centre section etc. keep polys low as possible) visual = as low poly as possible with no care of the structure within the flat road confines. physics layer version = added cross section nodes to create square uniform structure. then tessellate then subdivide. then make invisible in game.

 

[LockeNessMotorsports]

Yeah sort of understanding it but still slightly confused so basically copy it and keep the physical at the same height as the visual but make it invisible in ks editor.

How do you do that btw?

And adding bumps etc with the displace I still don't know aha

 

[Pixelchaser]

invisible physics layer, but named 1ROAD so its physical. visual layer should be named anything you want. and visible.

in the AC editor with objected selected on bottom bar on Object tab "is renderable" also when you want to batch process thing like all your track pieces at once. goto top menu and under utilities select "node grid"

this allows you to highlight multiple objects and process their settings at once.

 

[Pixelchaser]

and this is a picture of the structure of a finalised physics layer . i guess roughly 0.5m spaced tri`s.

 

[LockeNessMotorsports]

Cheers, bro much appreciated , Don't know what you mean spacing tris as in max it's just turbo,smooth/ mesh smooth.

 

[Pixelchaser]

i ment vertices spacing (the intersection points) we have triangles or quads. in the above image is triangles. when we export to FBX for AC it automatically triangulates any quads. but its better to work in quads. (4 point polygon squares). ignore if this confuses you. (RTB outputs quads)

right click with object selected and go into mesh mode (I think), try and apply subdivide and tessellate modifiers not mesh smooth or turbo.

 

[LockeNessMotorsports]

I know what you mean , make them all quads there's a tool in max for finding n gons i use mate. I've just added one iteration of mesh smooth in the corners on my visual and left the straights etc low poly.

 

[Pixelchaser]

try anything by all means. but I would suggest that whilst I say things shouldn't be uniform, for a consistent feel around the track.... try keep poly spacing uniform, but with a sense of destroyed rhythm. and don't worry about these physics polys to much man. they are never drawn by the gpu so pile them on. try half a million just for physics. ! remember 65536 poly limit per object though. so cut that shit up into sections.

 

[LockeNessMotorsports]

Yeah mesh smooth makes the poly count too high and causes ngons when ring selecting edges i don't want.

Here's my mesh at the minute the low poly, didn't really want to go to mad in the corners as it is low poly.

 

[LilSKi]

Yeah mesh smooth makes the poly count too high and causes ngons when ring selecting edges i don't want.

Here's my mesh at the minute the low poly, didn't really want to go to mad in the corners as it is low poly.

View attachment 1403

The visual needs to be much higher resolution than that. This isn't 1995 . You need the turns to look smooth at least.

 

[Pixelchaser]

btw ness, given the size of the trees you are obviously making a kart track right?

 

[LilSKi]

btw ness, given the size of the trees you are obviously making a kart track right?

Hah didn't notice that. Even if he is my first image still applies

 

[Pixelchaser]

yeah, but id say use even more , because its a small kart track. I mean you could just have a heavy weight physics layer as the visual layer to be honest.

 

[luchian]

Seems to be this one: Pat's Acres

Karting-ish track, but I see also some driftin' goin' on

Looks like a fun project.

 

[Pixelchaser]

indeed. that does put another slant on it for sure. I was discouraged when I made a kart track way back...

its also begging for a few hero detail trees. right in the middle hahahaha. a y shape right there aint going to be good at all.

speaking of trees, i learned the word "frond" recently. via speed tree the use of the frond relates to exactly what the Y shaped tree is. so they should be called frond trees ! although literally a frond refers to the shape of certain palm and bracken like plants and their shape.