W.I.P. Lime Rock

[Pixelchaser]

@Johnr777
btw i have simplified this grass placement down to simple method now. using another tool in max (utilities/ measure/ new floater) alongside the scatter tool.

measure tool tells you the surface area of any selected object, its the same maths as nighteye`s tutorial except it can work for any area sized object that keeps within the 65K vert limit. can work beyond that limit but you would need to cut it up after
kslayer5 = surface area x 1.5 =duplicates figure to enter into scatter tool per layering object.
kslayer4 = surface area x 0.9
kslayer3 = surface area x 0.7

 

[Johnr777]

that is indeed a lot simpler! Did you happened work out the figures if using 5 layers?

 

[Pixelchaser]

well depends where the extra 2 layers come. and why. are they to improve lower performance systems or ? and what frame rates does this give. the more grass area the more grass, so every track is different, but the primary subject is performance v visual and then it includes lods and how they work, but I would fit new layers of grass within those present lod figure range, if the overall performance allowed it.

 

[Pixelchaser]

also depends on the grass blade height, this is calculation on 20cm grass height. if you want lower and without a diminished effect of coverage you need to multiple the coverage by 2 for half the size (10cm) theoretically.

so ill lay my grass and if its poly count goes above say 1.,5 million that would be bad imo. in which case it would then either need higher grass to make up the deficit in coverage etc. so its a fricken balancing act really.

 

[Johnr777]

Say a track like Fiorano, most of it can be seen from its camera angles. Having more than 3 LODs would be beneficial even for a good system. IMO. Cameras pick up multiple track sections, multiple grass objects when comparing to a tighter track, longer layout environment.

 

[Pixelchaser]

or higher frequency of grass within the 3 layers you have now.

 

[Pixelchaser]

since ive been placing semi realistic cameras around in 3dsmax I realise the concept of the coverage changes much when down low. max camera height I have is about 3 m of the ground , which is really low. this is a factor too. just depends, I'm going to go with these figures and see the outcome.

 

[Pixelchaser]

this is kslayer 4 settings. my track has a lot of damn grass it seems,too much for these nighteye settings I think. I might find using 2 million polys is necessary, lodded very well it must be. or ill opt for lilski x3 layer system with different seed to the scatter... final figures will dicate what to go with, so ill make both

 

[Johnr777]

Looking good!
Is there a theory behind the seeds or is completely random? Finding i get too many areas where grass “clumps” together

 

[Pixelchaser]

well a you can either set multiple ksgrass layers for lod. by having high frequency layer, then lower, then lower in frequency, that's the nighteye theory. or.

the lilski theory is. you can make 3 of the same layers with a different seed. with all the same frequency but that frequency wouldn't be as high as in the above systems. using your eye to judge coverage and frequency.

so ive multipled surface area for night eyes system like as such layer 5, x 1.5 layer 4 x 0.9 etc.

the difference between layer 5 and 4 is significant reduction. in laymans terms, layer 5 has 1.5 blades per metre and layer 4 has 1 blade per metre. the poly count is effectively halfed. so I'm theorising that for a track with a **** ton of grass like LRP it is probably more efficient to go with the lilski layer system.

the above image is 1 blade per metre² of grass surface. weighing in at about 600 K, that x3 layers would be perfectly covered and be around 1.8 million in total. which I think would work fine.

 

[luchian]

Have you got a chance to try it in-game Pix ? (I like the looks otherwise)
If yes, how does it behave ?

iirc, it's easy to modify the benchmark default track combo in order to run some tests and judge performance impact in identical conditions.

 

[Pixelchaser]

jus tried it now, looks utterly aweful to be honest. but thats only because its so sensitive and everything needs tuned now. besides the tidying up edges, also i went with 10 cm height grass, and well twice the coverage that needs. so given the amount of grass needed using simple methods to create it thats just not going to happen., gona have to do 20 cm grass everywhere.

 

[luchian]

I was looking at Brands Hatch earlier. The grass is quite short and not that dense. But with a good texture under it, can look decent.

I think it's personal, but in my head, Lime Rock looks ace without 3d grass also.

 

[luchian]

Example from LFS !
Awesome 2d texture, and barely some 3d grass scattered. If you ask me, I love the look !
I prefer the crispiness of 2d perfect texture (e.g. iR), than the blurriness of a "ok-ish" 3d grass.

 

[Pixelchaser]

with balancing now mine could look like that. and probably will, ill make a colour palette for this. I like it, I must bite the bullet and do a full graphics overhaul throw thecurrent base grass variation out, get something new going. ijust didn't want it to end up looking the same green everywhere like all other version of LRP.

 

[Pixelchaser]

reset much of the graphics. now we have a look like this. 2 types of grass texture here second is based on the base grass ground texture. this is a very thick and low resolution texture, it does suit this style. but we need more transparency and hi rez stuff going on and ill try get something like the lfs image going. confident I can do that for sure.

 

[luchian]

Yeah, colors are really important I think. It's not about saturation, but balance.

 

[Pixelchaser]

we will get there eventually. this aint bad though following principles from that lfs shot. this way we get the texture below. I made this grass texture by taking the alpha channel and using it as a mask on this base grass texture. then I motion blurred up and down taking colour spots for the grass from the texture below.

 

[Pixelchaser]

and then the bizzare thing is, it kinda works now without changing the base scenery.

 

[Pixelchaser]

ohh ok then ill show it ingame. fabulous screenshot potential when this is all refined.. heres some sharp and blurry pics.

getting fresnel light to work with grass too.