W.I.P. Project: Shire, Glen Rannoch

[Pixelchaser]

taking objects into RTB is very easy, here is a basic wall made in max with photoshop tex` this obeject is designed to creep up hillsides with layering effect. will have 8 variations.(only 1 here) here is a portion. eventually I'm just going to start rendering these combined object wall textures from the actual Y shaped trees in 3dmax. and not derived from PS.

(not shader tuned for ground surface.)

@LilSKi I have a fw questions for you.

any thoughts on Black Cat counties build methods regards differences in main scenery geeneration as opposed to their factual track areas.. and whats your opinion on they`re use of multimap as opposed to multilayer for the track surface ? I'm debating using it instead of multilayer you see more often. I also like its dual normal mapping for detail scale and diffuse scale. just wondered your thoughts on it, I believe reflecting the sky slightly along the smoother averaged tyre tracks in something like my project maybe a better deal.

 

[LilSKi]

taking objects into RTB is very easy, here is a basic wall made in max with photoshop tex` this obeject is designed to creep up hillsides with layering effect. will have 8 variations.(only 1 here) here is a portion. eventually I'm just going to start rendering these combined object wall textures from the actual Y shaped trees in 3dmax. and not derived from PS.

(not shader tuned for ground surface.)

@LilSKi I have a fw questions for you.

any thoughts on Black Cat counties build methods regards differences in main scenery geeneration as opposed to their factual track areas.. and whats your opinion on they`re use of multimap as opposed to multilayer for the track surface ? I'm debating using it instead of multilayer you see more often. I also like its dual normal mapping for detail scale and diffuse scale. just wondered your thoughts on it, I believe reflecting the sky slightly along the smoother averaged tyre tracks in something like my project maybe a better deal.

One quick note about tree walls is they do not use the KSTREE naming. But it can still help to have the bottom normals pointing down and the top ones going up. This again will create the dark bottom. I do this for the first row of tree walls and the ones behind that just get all vertical normals.

I'm not sure about what you mean about scenery. Are you talking about the fact they use one giant texture to map out the whole track instead of in pieces? If so I think it is indeed a better way to do wide open areas like BCC. Remember circuits in general are very closed off and you don't see much beyond the track limits. This allows you do put a higher detail into the stuff closer to the track as you don't care much about stuff far away. For NJMP I kind of did a mix between conventional style and BCC with using one large google maps based diffuse texture. I actually more copied how Darren built VIR. But for a few sections where there is a dirt off track I isolated those sections so I can get higher detail in the diffuse and map in those areas.

I'm not a fan of the BCC road textures. I do like that the lines are "bumped" up but the rest of the look of the road just seems fake to me. There is also some weird lighting on the road where it is bright right in front of the car that fades away. Almost like you have your headlights on. I think that is because of the style of normal map. I prefer fresnel_nm.

 

[Pixelchaser]

so tree lines with 2 poly high also ? top poly normal down, bottom up. interesting. that bottom normal up also required for Y shaped individuals ? what about spherical normal LilSki, where do they lie in the scehem of things ? its another function for imported objects in rtb.

got this amount of trees down to 580 polys. on a hill 50o m circumference. quite happy with just to need block of any oblique angle issue more to the implantation workflow.. and adjust the spherical nature of it. but happy with it regards rtbs processing it. just a shame theres no real definition on the actual ks shaders like the editor.

and thanks for your comments and help. modelling is one thing. I just cant wait to get to in game graphics more and try impress the general concensus and impressions of RTB. there are a lot of features noobs just don't touch too. exhaustable list. but in this image I make a spline. which cant be smooth over the high poly scenery due to low poly. RTB has a WEighted to ground option which allows the polys to stay low but the trees still follow all the contours. obviously theres a bit of stretching but the front line will hide that. and the contours of the hills that are naturally obscured can still be detected. amazing really.

I think ill make a special front line string object system like you have, but add a few of the extra Y components. make it easier all round.

 

[LilSKi]

Don't worry about Y trees. When you name them with the KSTREE scheme the editor makes the normals for you. The amount of subdivisions on the vertical controls how high the dark area goes. If it is a single plane with no subdivision then the dark and light areas will be split 50/50. If you subdivide once then the dark area will be at the bottom quarter and the other 3 quarters will be light. In either case only the bottom normals point down, everything else should be up when it comes to walls. The Y trees will get a spherical normal setup that is based on the origin point. This is why the origin must be at the bottom of the object.

Another trick you might be able to use that I have not tried yet. I only thought in my head was to use the ksgrass shader on tree walls further back. You would disable shadows on those objects and apply the ksgrass shader. This gives you the variation option so you can bring more color variations in. I think RBR is doing something like this on the distant tree walls.

 

[Pixelchaser]

right brilliant man, totally get it now. have rtb apply spherical normal to (any) object (this case tree) could be interesting for using other shaders that don't require the KSTREE naming convention..... ala applying ksgrass shader to all the Y shaped for the variation potential and thus keeping the spherical normal required for them to work in any directional lighting.

edit. - seems to work, ks grass shader on trees with spherical normal not introduced via KSTREE naming convention. have tested with RTB`s shaders and cant detect differences when having tried this with RTB`s light source (very sensitive to normal)

 

[LilSKi]

right brilliant man, totally get it now. have rtb apply spherical normal to (any) object (this case tree) could be interesting for using other shaders that don't require the KSTREE naming convention..... ala applying ksgrass shader to all the Y shaped for the variation potential and thus keeping the spherical normal required for them to work in any directional lighting.

edit. - seems to work, ks grass shader on trees with spherical normal not introduced via KSTREE naming convention. have tested with RTB`s shaders and cant detect differences when having tried this with RTB`s light source (very sensitive to normal)

Just because you use KSTREE doesn't mean you are tied to the tree shader. You can still apply any shader you want. The idea of KS TREE is to not only make the normals for you but to group the trees into single objects according to group name.

 

[Pixelchaser]

so. what would be the difference in grouping them as an object yourself ? I duno why I was relating the naming convention to the shader. In RTB there is tree shader option but its my bet it doesn't do what the ac engine does.

 

[LilSKi]

Technically you could set your normals and then join them into larger objects and call them whatever you want. I find it easier to leave them as individual objects and let the editor do all the normals and grouping for me. All I have to do is name them correctly. Also leaving them as separate objects allows easier editing and moving around of individual trees if need be. Also doing random scaling is easier when they are all individual objects.

EDIT: If you call a group of trees kstree it will set the normals on the group as a whole and screw everything up. So if you do group them you cannot use the kstree naming.

 

[Pixelchaser]

yeah, spherical normals on multiple objects with acting as one .

this is how I'm going to do my personal trees. obviously this is low res demonstration. need too bark texture it. but I'm happy with it. worked better than I thought.

 

[LilSKi]

That is pretty convincing. I use speedtree to make them in 3D and then it can bake PNG with alpha channel based on the model. I would suggest you show less trunk and bring the branches/leaves closer to the ground. Trees usually only look like that when they are all alone in the open. Here is a pretty good example of both. One the stand alone tree and you can see the "forest" has the branches come all the way close to the ground. You can't see any trunks.

 

[Pixelchaser]

only thing wrong in your shot there is the car and its shaders . I like the element of sunlight through the fine balancing, I sometimes struggle to arrange that balance, but I know I'm usually using too much detail on diffuse textures in general that destroys the smooth flow of light. on the other hand I think its too smooth at times and much can be done there.

 

[Pixelchaser]

so... I had to restart from scratch again . and 9 days later i`ve duplicated the same project, but as always its always better second time round.

but were back and better than before. and backed up. shaders are pretty much set. just 6 pm shots here. iam deliberately widening the light to dark presence of the daylight transfer on the scenery for this project. (unless grass is affected to much by it)

 

[LilSKi]

I presume that is fresnel_nm? Looks pretty good!

 

[Pixelchaser]

thanks yeah, its Fresnel nm, but I'm letting everything go darker though, but I don't think grass will work on it to be honest, what I can do via alpha is knock the specular channels off near the track side (but detail alpha/spec you cant chang(where grass will be) and try it like that.. just gota see really or else ill need to make complete side sections explicitly, which I try avoid. .

also I add some emmisive to everything, blue channel. +0.2/3.... under shadow and low light the colour bleeds away nice to a subtle blue tone which enhances the dusk dawn effects alongside the scenery darkening etc.

 

[LilSKi]

Yeah I've been using the same shader settings for both land and road I just darken the alpha of the detail textures to where I need it for grass and sand. I might stay away from the emmisive settings as when I messed with them it made it look weird when PP filters were off. I believe any color or hue changes really should be done in the diffuse or detail textures.

 

[Pixelchaser]

yeah if the detail textures for land are not using fresenel light, no point in having their alphas working I guess. I just want that light working over it in the distance mainly because its awesome. I could double up on the detail textures I suppose. we shall see. we shall see. I also have the black square of doom because of, I'm not sure what but it must be shadowing and light related from the sun. like the edge of the sun square emitter , can see it in this at 23 mins

 

[Pixelchaser]

also PP filters. I had better check that. i generally only ad emmisive to the grey and green items but I better check that.. I always check all the weathers...... but I hate pp filters. the only pp filter that should be there is sun glasses. . traditional Post processing . its like changing the HDR settings for tommorows real life drive to work with these stupid pp settings. I always loved Iracings design potential given the lack of shaders, it simply relies on damned good art and integration.

 

[Pixelchaser]

this is the 12:00 midday lighting which I'm really happy with so far. definitely need to stop making it go so dark though. its nice, but the integration of other objects just wont accept it I fear. the graphics engine isn't really very good tbh, its totally bare bones and very much stuck in a non play full way shader settings wise. spherical and general normals and non double sided objects and zero vertex painting is nonsense in 2017 really.

 

[LilSKi]

this is the 12:00 midday lighting which I'm really happy with so far. definitely need to stop making it go so dark though. its nice, but the integration of other objects just wont accept it I fear. the graphics engine isn't really very good tbh, its totally bare bones and very much stuck in a non play full way shader settings wise. spherical and general normals and non double sided objects and zero vertex painting is nonsense in 2017 really.

Well I may be wrong in thinking this but the engine was basically written by one guy. So in my opinion it is pretty good when you think of it that way. I'm sure engines like cryengine and unreal have many people developing them.

 

[Pixelchaser]

true, hey don't get me wrong though, I do love it. in the grand scheme of things its poor. and zero development on that side for like 2 years. but I love making for it, and even though rfactor2 is getting updated. there is just something very cool about AC`s overall experience graphically.