SOLVED RTB - Long track with Elevation data and high quality images.

[DarkSession]

Well, i have a little problem. It's super easy to create a small track with RTB. But im strugglin to make a long track. The track should be around 28km long and 3km wide. The problem is, if i use RTB's in built features to catch the satellite data including elevation, everything is very low res and there is zero elevation, i guess this is because the poly count is very low. But even when adding geometry it doesn't change or just very little.

So im looking for a proper way to get elevation data from a big track, its not important for me to be super accurate, but there should be at least some sort of foundation to build from.

What i tried :
- Saving one high res image with SASPlanet and replacing the RTB background image with it. Struggled here to replace the image because im not sure how to save the exact same dimensions in SASPlanet as in RTB. My thought behind this is, that the low res picture can be replaced with a stitched together image from SASPlanet, but keeping the elevation data.

Help would be appreciated, thanks

 

[Pixelchaser]

well Ac supports a 16 x 16 km area, its uses the absolute centre for the physics centre point, going beyond that means the physics don't work accurately.

the best way to scale a new image into rtb is to capture what you want in rtb and overlay your new stuff over it manually in photoshop etc.

 

[DarkSession]

Well thanks thats what i tried, but how can i replace the textures after i placed the roads? For example i need the GMAP data to set up my roads and vegetation. Next step would be to remove the GMAP image and paint textures all over the terrain. If i simply use the paint tool over the original GMAP image, it still seems to be transparent because i can see the underlaying ground texture MIXED with the new texture.

Edit : I figured out how to make the Road fade into the terrain, but how can i add more textures for painting?

Help would be appreciated Thanks!

 

[Pixelchaser]

rtb is limited to 1 background image. if its using the multilayer texture then that's why its blending together, because that's how multilayer works, it goes between far detail (satellite map) and close detail (detail textures).

polygons are polygons so adding a new low poly road is one way to add more textures.


in the above rtb.jpg image , if you want make that better you would blend that edge over. various ways to do it. but the problem is all the variation on the background terrain image, sometimes a single texture wont cut it. so what I do is I have to locate the road position on the background image and paint something to blend with, takes plenty different skills for that which I cant really explain here.

 

[DarkSession]

Well thanks for your anwser, i understand RTB now. Its very limited imho so i use it for the basic terrain and roads. I'm not gonna Texture in RTB because its a pain in the ass.

Question : How do you texture the Terrain without RTB? I got everything working now. And could possible just take the GMAP background image, make it something something 8K and paint my favored textures on it. But thats very unprecise, i would rather want to paint on the Geometry in real time. I'm gonna split the terrain in parts and then unwrap the UV's so i have a lil bit more control and can paint each section seperate, but help would be appreciated

 

[Pixelchaser]

takes a lot of out the box thinking. I generally work by the global method, just 1 big canvas. the multilayer shader is your friend because it blends from that satellite map to the close up textures, so that's the method you want to learn regards texturing. consider your pixels per metre ratios on your scenery because that's important to the type of detail you want to make with the multilayer. my scenery comes in at around 8 pixels per metre, when using an 8k image that would means I'm on a 1 x 1 km area.

i also consider any mapping for terrain done in RTB as temporary, when its complete ill cut it all up in 3dmax or blender and re map it and have more pixel ratio etc.

also polygons are just polygons just because you used the "road" tool doesn't mean you cant make
"not road"scenery with it heres me making a sandy beach with the road tool

and heres a big chunk of grass over a hill again using the road tool itself.

don't forget the use scenery button too, anywhere you place a road it can adopt the background image as texture, and "later" you can play with that more.

material and texture editors are as powerful as you want them to be in RTB. just gota think out of the box and sometimes further ahead than what rtb can do in favour of what the big programs can do at least that's how i work it.

 

[DarkSession]

Alright thanks, i think i understood that now. I still have problems with Shaders though. Luchian posted a small guide on how to make a nice fade with 3 Meshes, where the middle mesh is used as the bridge for the fade. It's still unclear to me how to do that. The post is pretty old and maybe things have changed. So if there is a better way then please tech me

So basically how does the KSPerPixelAT Shader work without adding a Mask file? I saw Luchian using a mix between both materials as the Diffuse and a B/W Colormap as a Alpha, but where does the alpha go?

 

[Pixelchaser]

an alpha is a channel of an RGBA `DDS` texture. so that's 4 channels red green blue and then there is this hidden channel that's the alpha. (hidden because its not directly viewable as part of the texture) and its not full colour coz that would need rgb channels, so its black grey and white. as is a single channel in its own right on its own.. its often used for transparency or specular light effects. when its part of a mask texture its just another placement channel. its quite versatile.

ks per pixel AT doesn't use a mask. the common terms are the `mask` for multilayer or the `map` for multimap. AT stand for alpha transparency. so its using the alpha for that. so fore example. it relates to the diffuse, where you see black on the alpha would be transparent and when white it would be opaque and you would see that part of the texture. a non "AT" shader uses the alpha for specular effects as opposed to transparency.

Multilayer based shaders use a separate texture that's a mask and it places textures within the diffuse so when you get close it blends from the texture to the textures you set in the editor. the close textures. this is what I use for everything. in this case the alpha channel is used for specular lighting.

multimap shaders are the highly detailed shader that requires lots of pixels per metre ratio. super high detailed stuff only like when you have superb photography.......

so this shader uses a separate texture called a `map` texture and this has specular on the green channel , reflection on the blue and specular width on the red channel. so it doesn't ever look like a normal texture and it too is invisible in game it just commands the special effects in conjunction with the highly detailed main texture. they all have the same mapping no effects are separate. and through this method we can make things shiny like car paint or metal. or even water.

 

[DarkSession]

Wow thanks i got it finally working with your help! So much better and cleaner result. The next step is to split up Sand and Grass areas. Well i don't want small tiled textures, but rather Big guided textures which you suggested. I UVW Unwrapped a part of my terrain (in 3DSmax), baked the Texture Blueprint in 8K and stitched together multiple sand and dirt textures in Photoshop. Worked out great. Thank you. I guess this is a good way to texture if i don't want to use a Tiling pattern right?

Any tips to save some MBs? For example if i want two different beach or coastal areas which utilize different sand textures? I mean adding another Two 8K Textures really cranks up the project size.

 

[Pixelchaser]

this why you need to be looking at the mulilayer fresnel nm textures.

the multilayer shader blends from this global satellite texture to the tiled textures that are close detail textures. the global map can be 8k and it colours the close detail textures it works with so as you get close in game then suddenly highly detailed sand appears. and blends out at distance to the global map. and that's where the mask works to place the close detail textures. you might find more info on my lime rock park thread here.

 

[Pixelchaser]

this is how I go from my roads to the main terrain, 3 objects, main road, side line built of the main road and satellite image.

I have in this case a colour beige that is on the side line and painted around the road edge on the global satellite image. this is just diffuse texture you see, all objects use same shader.

 

[DarkSession]

Alright Alright thank you so much i tried out your method on a fresh track and i finally understand how it works. I will add this to my track when im done with texturing the main parts. And thats where im stuck currently.

From what i know from 3D Modeling, UVW Maps tell Textures how to tile and how they are arranged. Alright, so if i would model something for other games i would bake out the UVW and do the texture in PS or Substance Painter on the 3D Model in real time. But from what i have seen this isn't used in AC. So how do i get the Texture to tile properly at the correct size, and how do i create the Mask file for the Multilayer if i have 3-4 meshes put together?

I didn't figure out those two things. Do i have to split my terrain into some chunks and UV Map each part seperate? Could you maybe show me how you texture some piece of terrain? Lets say you have a hill, split into 4 big meshes, 1 mesh should be sand, the other 3 meshes should be grass and all should use multilayer for variation. Thank you!

 

[Pixelchaser]

with multilayer you can use 4 channels for 4 detail textures, so I use 1 massive uv map over everything and that means 1 material. multilayer tiles the detail textures for you, so you don't need to repeat anything anymore. on 1 massive satellite map I have painted the areas on the `mask` for sand, grass1, grass2, and general road style texture.

heres is my diffuse for the whole scenery and my mask for the whole scenery, its just my choice to work like this. many people like to cut scenery up into sections and that's fine. but loose the notion of the repeating tile thing regards uv mapping. its old school now and modern shaders get around it.

just uv map everything without repeating any textures, that's the modern way even though its unique to AC because of the multilayer shader. within the diffuse gets tiled what you see on the mask. where its black is road texture, where its green is grass type 1 , red sand, and blue grass 2,

the engine shader says ok for this object. blend the mian mapped diffuse with whatever detail texture channel selected by using the mask for placement within the existing uv mapping.

in game. this is that diffuse blended with the textures appointed by the mask. obviously you don't view the mask itself but you can see why its got sand there instead of grass coz of the 4 channel mask. when you set this up you can fine tune how much these grass and sand texture repeat. and that's how we use textures through repeating them. in the shader not in the main mapping for the object.

 

[DarkSession]

Well thank you guys for your help but i cancelled my project. When i resolve the first problem another one pops up. I often don't know how to deal with seperating the map. Sure you can already drive on it and i understand that Texturing stuff. But i reverse engineered some tracks and still don't know why people did this and that. For example why they seperated some parts of the map from the rest and so on RTB is a handy programm but i really don't know how to cut into the terrain like many people did. Don't get me started on UVW Maps i still don't know why big trianglular pieces which are seperate objects have the satellite image on them nicely aligned, but no material shows up in my material browser in 3Dsmax.

Thanks for you help tho.