W.I.P. Lime Rock

[luchian]

Fair enough

 

[Willy Wale]

yeah , think ill just use an ac texture tbh. and then revisit it once its time for that coz there is nothing else to do.

Do you remember when I was playing with mipmaps (driving towards a checkerboard wall with each mip level a different colour). Anyway, when the car was nose up to the wall the full screen view was approximately 3m wide by 2m high. So even on a 4k display the max pixel resolution would be 1k ish per metre. If your grass is 2k per metre it may always be using the first mip or lower.
Does it behave itself if you halve the resolution of the grass texture?

 

[Pixelchaser]

yeah i remember , I did half it but it was scaled too which wouldn't have helped it. its about the density of the blade itself. too much / to little . but the kunos texture definitely uses the whole fade to some effect. so I'm happy with it really.

 

[Mr Whippy]

The alpha testing for transparency on grass/trees is done really simply so it's fast on many overlapping layers, so the alpha channel mips are important.

Mips may be generated with gamma 2.2 which is bad as things 'shrink' on their outline.

Then you have filtering which may change stuff.

I literally set up test scenes with the objects going off into the distance so all the mips fade down, then edit the mip alpha manually (exposure value, curves, levels, to pump the alpha up or down).
In some cases with wire fences (made in 3D and rendered out), I literally rendered in 2048, 1024, 512 etc, and dropped the lower size renders into each mip so the alpha were treated properly and not filtered badly by crappy resize algos.

Ideally you should do this with baked normal maps too, as the gamma and filtering issues in many mipping approaches aren't ideal.


So in the case of grass, the best result might be to make it in 3D then render out the various sizes and alphas for the mips.

I'm sure I did this for my grasses on a track, but just for the alphas.
The colour was just painted solid over the entire canvas as you do.

 

[Pixelchaser]

i recently had some feedback on LRP that wasn't all likes and something to look forward to. so right now I'm considering my place in all of this and just how I participate. asides from words like inflated ego and other negs, its not all nice I know but I'm now contemplating giving up doing it in a way that that leaves me open to such ridicule and opinion and mainly because I cant handle how down it gets me when ive just tride to get involved and learn and help others and after 3 years of severe depression to the extent i cant work out there. and all ive had is this to keep me going. so if there is anything else on LRP it`ll be the finished product I'm glad to say but also afraid to say.

and also all lilski can say say to me is threats that he`ll build it , so il let lilski build it. have fun with it ya bunch of rotten cunts. my fault for trying to take this to the friendly level on the discord. I shall persevere though on my own. and watch lilski do exactly as he threatened if thats his intention. after all he can build the better track right ? when he said serious I can only presume he was for some reason, and if that's whats on the back of peoples minds I tried to consider as friends, so if you want to treat me like that. you can all take a long walk of a short pier and drown. whats funny about this, is just only recently I started working on it again after say 3 months of nothing. so whilst I got the motivation you certainly made a point of killing that motivation too and I'm left just not understanding much about anything, obviously I'm not innocent in this, but really I didn't have any bad intentions per say. but ive put myself out there, its time to reel it in if I am delusional about any of this. which may be the case when the stuff that happens, happens...


edit: the real reason not much has been worked on is that ive had 1 cancer scare since july. and I'm awaiting a new biopsy now. thats january 7th, so is that 2 ? and that's why ive been chilling most of this time and not working on much of anything. I struggle to talk about it so I don't. but that's where I'm at. I don't for 1 second think there is anything wrong as there are some factors that out stupid health service done want to take into account, its mouth cancer ok. but I have dentures. and they irritate by cheeks. but to them its a problem, when its not. so I don't for one second believe I have cancer, but it does play a niggling part in the back of your mind alright, so that's why I'm in easy mode when I don't want to be and its annoying as I don't know what....... grrrrr.

 

[Pixelchaser]

tell you what else is annoying, for some whose textures are no better than anyone elses. and whilst you lot rip your textures from other sources, ohh and @gtvirus while you asked me to make textures for you. **** you.

and for all your information. most of Lilski tracks are refined and based on iracing rips. and anything he can use ninja ripper on! ill give him some credit for his texturing over and above, gt virus`s given the insults passed that can only have been formed from more private discussions.

I put that together and requested it here because there wasn't much harmony on here in the forum. thought it was a good experiment in furthering friendship and friendliness. but it appears nobody could provide me the feedback I need to my face whilst one formed behind my back. nasty work guys, and I heard there was no regret from Lilski on the discord about the fact ive pulled him up about it here. so yeah, what R are you. Regret or Relief.

but don't worry I'm done sharing dirty little secrets. ill play the truth full game of avoiding that and better than ever before. soon™ don't see you dirty little shit bag cowardly fucks helping anyone out, just reap & rip. rinse & repeat. that's all you are worth.

 

[LilSKi]

Well considering all 3 of my current tracks don't even exist in iRacing that comment is pretty funny. And my Watkins shares nothing with iRacing. I simply used the measurements from 3 of their assets to build my own. That's right a whole 3 objects. Flag stations, front straight grandstands, and pit lane grandstands. If measuring something means ripping something than I am guilty.

Also just because you can't model a simple building from a box don't take your aggressions out on me. I'm not even the one who started all this.

You lost your mind cause your precious Star Wars was 'ruined' and wouldn't shut up about it. That is how we got here.

 

[Pixelchaser]

nope. underlying all this has just been a shroud of deceipt towards me if any of the comments were true. and how dare you try think you can take someones track and build it before them with your ladee dadee daahh, ive built 3 tracks here there and everywhere, the word EGO was made for you ya muppet. I dare you to find out how rotten you are. I dare you to go out your way to piss me off, if all this was me just being grumpy about starwars. . and if it had nothing to do with Lime Rock, then really what the ****... onus is on you guys and your general opinion of me, which I get. and that's going to have to be ok that's how it is. I did say id force it to a conclusion, and I did say if anyone wants me to leave then just tag me. and ill be off. but no lilski, suddenly its about limerock and how your threating to take it and build and that you are serious. that's why I left the discord. how dare you.

you think you are the king, and that freaking out last week because you pointed me to how to do 3d grass and I didn't follow your instruction was the start of it... you want to diminish my personal issue to irrelevant, then ill diminish yours. and realise I shouldn't have forgiven you just coz you had a kid and didn't bother to tell anyone else. yes having a go at me about modding was what you choose to do.

and this constantly bitching up on every single creator at race department really should stop. you are not the king. but your good at that, ill grant you that but I cant change your opinion on that, nobody can. but you could learn a thing or two. I think secretly that's why you hang around with anyone given your general attitude. its all a bit sneaky really.

 

[LilSKi]

You can do it but I can't?

Pixel
"hey man, is there an updates on barber motorsports? I see nothing anywhere on this after months of you telling me about it. I have the lidar data and I'm ready to go on it basically."

Me
"It is sill being worked on he just doesn't post about his progress. Plus we made a deal that if he wasn't able to finish it that I would continue the project. The track is currently at a point similar to LRP. Last time I looked you still had a long way to go to finish that anyway."

Pixel
"well I have no list that is achievable. and considering the access I have in Birmingham in multiple areas. i`ll pose an unwritten rule too. the person with best access to all data should make it if the original author fails."

You said I ripped from iracing. I said I have built 3 tracks that don't exist in iracing. Not sure how ego has anything to do with it. I have spent a lot of my free time helping this community over the past 3 years. Not sure what the hell you have been doing besides redoing the grass on LRP for the 30th time and trying to reinvent a wheel that doesn't need to be reinvented.

Limerock deserves to be built and you obviously don't have the mindset to finish it. Why am I to wait for you take 3 years to finish a very short and simple track when I can probably do the whole damn thing in 4 months. I wish I never suggested you to do LRP. I thought you had the motivation to see the project through but I couldn't have been more wrong.

 

[luchian]

Guys, I'm really sorry to see this unfolding here like this. For me it's sort of unexpected, but then again I was not all that present for the discussions that happened semi-privately apparently.
That being said, I respect the work you guys have done and I know that every modder has strengths and weakneses (as does any of us). Considering that everybody is doing this as a hobby, I hope you will manage to find your place in the scene, without looking for somebody's approval on purpose. It's a never ending learning process anyway, no matter the level.

On a personal note, I would appreciate it the "offtopic" could end here. This is merely a request, not planning to use any kind of "for-the-image-censorship" bs. It's part of forum life I guess. And definitely part of Internet.
I'm just really sad to see it, especially from respected members like yourselves .

Regarding participation in the forum:
It's well and beyound appreciated, but please don't feel any pressure to do it if you don't want to. The motor of discussions here should be passion. If you loose that and it becomes another of life's stresses, please don't do it. Use the time to do whatever else brings you fun and relaxation.

Cheers guys.

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

 

[Pixelchaser]

I thought you had the motivation to see the project through but I couldn't have been more wrong.

yet here i am working on it..... and my pace has what to do with you ? am I not fast enough for you ?

still your trying to dictate how things are done in the modding community. when you have about 5 tracks on this special list of yours. laughable you are.

but we`ll see if you bump this Lime Rock Park up your list beyond the others. I expect you to start touting your own version if you are serious. now that you have turned this into how obliging you are to "let" me do it. is that what you are saying ? and that you suggested this to me. I picked a track nobody else was doing and that had data and because you suggested it whilst I also decided on it that I owe it all to you ? see this is where you go wrong with this ego bullshit. stay away from me please.

I can post your private chat too about how you cant be arsed helping here on the forum if you want and your happy to just sit in the discord.

so while I'm here and you are not unless there a real reason like this. please go away and leave my thread alone and let me get on with lime rock thank you. I hate you lilski, but I wont interfere in your business again.

I will back and fresh in the new year hopefully hassle free.

 

[LilSKi]

I'm done here. Good luck on your ventures.

 

[Pixelchaser]

good luck on yours, and I'm thankful for meeting you and chatting more personally contrary to everything else said.I have a fondness for you, just not your attitude when it comes to the modding, but please. you`re an alright guy, virus too. good luck both of ya. I don't hate you, its just that I hated. what will be will be. and we all know that.

 

[Mr Whippy]

Well that all escalated quickly after my post

Maybe if I post again it'll all stop.



So yeah on grass, I've gone down this pontification loop before and really there is no easy way to get the result you want unless you're willing to get in there and really think about grass like you'd paint grass in a nice landscape.
Is grass all the same length, type, straightness, colour etc? Nope.

Long grass bends over more, short is straight up but almost invisible.

Time of year will dictate the look too. Seed heads, no seed heads. Colouring. New shoots. That sub-concious look of 'that's not right' because you used autumn look grass with spring time tree look etc.


Eventually I just created a 2048x2048 texture for grass (could probably strip out the 2048 and run from the 1024 mip downwards with a 1024px texture)
It then had a whole atlas of long/short grasses, shrubby bits, couch grasses etc, and these all mapped to scaled planes for distribution, so they all looked about right scale wise and pixel density sizes.


Then I'd just paint them in with scatter tools. Time consuming yes, but also nice because you'd naturally paint more density near track edges, or slow areas, and less density back off towards the barriers or at faster areas.

I'm pretty sure back when I was discussing this with (Nighteye, iirc, back on the AC forums when you could), I'd said that I'd given up on scatters and just did it all manually because it just made the best result vs many iterations of scattering trying to get 'a look' that you'd never be 100% happy with.




BUT, all this is kinda pointless any way because AC's grass method is crap.

I think Dirt was it, or some Codemasters game, had textures for the track (full size over entire course), that'd procedurally place appropriate grass, and had a lower GPU and RAM load than millions of bloody 2d planes everywhere!

It wouldn't be so bad if there was a UV coord jiggle so the grass could wave, and it'd give tracks much more life... but no, even though Free Racer had that back in about 2006, and it looked pretty damn nice with good settings, KS decided to just use the method from 2004 for grass.



Personally I've done about 20 hobby tracks and finished maybe two or three of them. I've done about 20 pro tracks and done them all in quick time and they look fine with happy clients.

Pontificating and learning and trying out ideas is cool, but sometimes just moving on and getting the whole track kinda right, and then doing multiple passes afterwards to refine it is ok too.


I think my original Top Gear test track was re-spun loads of times in conversions etc. It was terrible really. It took like 5 days to make and involved pontification too haha. Maybe 3 days of actual work tops.

But it got out there and worked well enough and was enjoyed. It also gave a great perspective on what needed more work and what could be left alone.



All the best

Dave

 

[Pixelchaser]

the day we get to unreal engine sims will be great for this fauna "crap" . i have made 12 trees over 5 variations today, so going to build the planes and thrash this tree plot out.

 

[luchian]

I think my original Top Gear test track was re-spun loads of times in conversions etc. It was terrible really. It took like 5 days to make and involved pontification too haha. Maybe 3 days of actual work tops.

Is this publicly available out there somewhere ?

Eventually I just created a 2048x2048 texture for grass (could probably strip out the 2048 and run from the 1024 mip downwards with a 1024px texture)
It then had a whole atlas of long/short grasses, shrubby bits, couch grasses etc, and these all mapped to scaled planes for distribution, so they all looked about right scale wise and pixel density sizes.

Any chance you could share some of that ?

 

[Mr Whippy]

Not sure on Top Gear track. It was like 2002/3 just after the new one had started and I was kinda new to track making too.
I just wanted somewhere to do lap times so threw it together fairly quickly. I'll happily share the build files, but rest assured it's nothing special at all.



On the texture, it was mostly just dev stuff so not refined. I never got that far. Most slots and stuff were set up for all the grass types, but the project was delivered without all the road-side stuff (basically 20km of UK roads with all the blends of grasses and shrubs etc)

The trees however were. I made several atlases full of textures of UK trees, based off trees from a 3D tree plugin for 3DS Max, then refined further for 2D use in games.

It was all done for a paid for job so I've not shared any of it. It needs adapting to be unique, but using the same base process/assets from the 3D app.

 

[Pixelchaser]

bought a cheap wacom graphics tablet the other day, an intuos small thing. hope to take texturing to a different level with it. but its a bit alien right now , need to update my motor functions.

 

[luchian]

Got one of those too. Takes some time to get used to, but can be fun.
That being said, I haven't used mine in a looong time .

 

[Pixelchaser]

well I'm not a free hand type artist with this stuff, always technical side of things. curves and lines etc. we shall see where it goes, but it is mainly for the post processing of imagery, not the creation.